"white" LED's vs. incandescent and halogen lights

[Joy Beeson]

On Sun, 6 Dec 2009 16:24:33 -0000, "Androcles"

you have been kill-filed, . . . for

excessively long and dramatic plonk.

[Clive George]

Dude, the cost of a sodium lamp street light is $70, less than
a bicycle. The cost of a LED street light is $485, more than a bicycle.
You're also apparently the one who has no real life experience of
economics.

Don't forget to factor in the rest of the things involved with making a
street light, and the fact that LED is a very new technology in street
lighting applications. Oh, you did. A person with real life experience of
economics would not miss that out.

As requested, here's the plonk.

Your loss.

[Marc]

A pair of AA NiMH rechargeable batteries contains about 5 watt-hours
of energy, and it is inexpensive and easy to substitute if it fails in
an emergency. This energy source allows a headlight to have a very
convenient pocketable shape and size. To reap these benefits, you
have to accept the energy limitation-- which makes a watt-for-watt
comparison of LEDs versus other light sources quite relevant. In my
analysis, quantity of light per watt is the most important measure of
a bicycle light source.

===========================================
http://progress-energy.com/custservice/shared/LEDStreetLightTestProje...

I don't understand what you are getting at by this. White LED is a
better quality light source than high-pressure sodium, but it is not
categorically more power-efficient. Low-pressure sodium lighting is
more efficient yet, and even worse in light quality.
To my knowledge, there is no form of high-pressure sodium lighting
that can be carried on a bicycle, let alone powered by a pair of AA
cells. However much it may excel in terms of lumens per watt, it does
not qualify as a bicycle light.
Are you suggesting that bicycle lighting should be more predominantly
yellow like street lighting? Note that there are high efficiency,
high flux amber LEDs that operate at full power with less than 3 volts
to the emitter. I have used amber Luxeon LEDs in combination with a
larger number of white Luxeon LEDs for better color rendition in
portable sign lighting. I experimented with adding red LED light as
well, but it did not help significantly for the signs I was
illuminating.
Chalo
=============================================
$70 a 25-year unit versus $485 a 15-year unit.
As with any fixture, maintenance will still be required for wires,
brackets, knockdowns, adjustments, periodic cleaning, animal damage, pole
maintenance, and potentially earlier fixture replacement (12 - 15 years)
vs. today's replacement cycle of 20-25 years.
If you want to be seen by other road users, display a simple and cheap
light for safety - any old LED will do although the law has a colour
requirement, white front and red rear. If you want to illuminate the
environment, whether by headlights or street lights, ya gotta pay. I'm
happy for you to spend your
money on bicycle lights - don't spend mine on street lights. Which makes
a lumen-for-penny comparison of LEDs versus other light sources far more
relevant than a watt-for-watt comparison.
That's what I'm getting at.

Not very well.

You can fuck off too, one line responses are most uninteresting, three
word responses even more so.
*plonk*

Whoohooo! I got plonked, and only the third person in the thread to be
so! I wonder if this is the "full" plonk or the pretend plonk you used
on someone else?

Do not reply to this generic message,

Ahh but you see this is Usenet, where you can stamp your foot as much as
you like and tell people not to reply and all that will happen is that
they will, and then others will post a comment on that reply and you get
to read it anyway!

[Frank Krygowski]

Hey, can I get kill-filed too?

Yes. No problem.
*plonk*

Don't believe him, Tom. His "plonk" message is just a way to
discourage inconvenient retorts. He still reads posts by those he
claims to have plonked, and sometimes can't stop himself from
replying.

I don't mind him reading, but his responses are as annoying as a six-
year-old at a symphony. Reminds me too much of "Jute."

- Frank Krygowski

[unknown]

It's obvious that the mundane "white" LED bicycle lights do not light
up the asphalt roads very well. Incandescents, halogens, and sodium
lights do better.

That's not at all obvious to me.

Then try it and it will be (unless you happen to be blind).
LED bicycle lights were ever intended to illuminate asphalt,
they merely provide a legally required source of light for oncoming
vehicle drivers to observe. If you want to illuminate asphalt, use more
candlepower.

"Not that LED bicycle lights were ever intended to illuminate
asphalt"? That's thoroughly wrong. For just one example, the LED
headlight at http://www.nabendynamo.de/english/index.html is used by
people riding in all-night competitions on the road.
================================================
Listen up, dim bulb, if you want to illuminate asphalt then use more
candlepower, it's that fuckin' simple.

Indeed, and if you want more candlepower from the same wattage, you
need an LED.

My B&M Ixon IQ is a single 2w led, and is brighter than any 6v halogen
I've ever seen.
And it's not even the brightest led out there.

[Tom Keats]

In article

Are "white" LEDs legally white. As in, a white lamp must be fitted
to
the front of the vehicle and a red lamp must (usually) be fitted to
the rear and operational during times of darkness.
==========================================
Yes, they are. If you compare older incandescent car headlights
with later halogen lights one will appear to have a yellow tinge
whilst the other appears bluish. Both are legally white.
Loading Image...
From a legal standpoint you can use a hurricane lamp if you wish,
or even a candle with a glass wind shield. There is no legal
requirement
to use an electric light, the law was made before electric lighting
became commonly available.
Loading Image...
Legally the lights are required so that you can be seen, not for you
to
see by; in Britain a high brightness red rear fog lamp is now a
legal
requirement.

That was the issue all along - that it's based on power not
brightness.
It's how you can have incredibly bright car headlights based on
halogen
and other metals and really shite yellowish bulbs that are still bits
of
coiled wire - both are perfectly legal as the power consumption is the
same.
LED's gave us the chance to 'shine', the battery life is a bonus.

I don't think there is any point in attempting to compete with car
headlights.

There seems to be a mindset that that is indeed what
bike riders need to do, either in terms of o/p wattage
or brightness. In city traffic, blinking lights + speed
difference + positioning on the street does the trick
nicely -- as long as the batteries don't fade.

So get a lead-acid battery from a motor-cycle.
The weight won't affect your speed, just your acceleration,
and when you get tired pedalling you can run a motor from
it. Electrically propelled bicycles have been around for a while
now.
Anyway, bikes are faster than cars in city traffic which is why
couriers use them.

I'm quite happy w/ my old-school generator + Union headlight,
supplemented a little with flashlight battery lights.

Then what the heck are you whining about blinking lights, speed
difference, positioning on the street and fading batteries for in
a sci newsgroup, Mr. Oh-so-happy?

I'm not whining; I'm exulting. Why are you so crabby?

You are all set, get on your
bike and ride outa here on the horse you rode in on.

You're giving me the choice of bike or horsie?

Sweeeeeeeet. TYVM, Mean Mister Mustard. I will
of course opt for the bike, as the landlady wouldn't
cotton much to equine presences in the basement.

You are hereby sentenced to hang by the neck until
you cheer up.

In the meantime, bicycles do not need overkill lighting
for riding at night.