There is no time dilation

[PD]

There are paradoxes in SR.

No sir, there are no paradoxes or internal contradictions.
=========================================
Yes, moron, there are paradoxes and internal contradictions.

Such as?

"If you do not comprehend it, it is only by virtue of your choice NOT
TO TRY, not to expend the effort. " -- Phuckwit Duck.

[Mathal]

The GPS uses the SR equations to calculate the SR velocity effect of 7
us/day running slow....this value is subtracted from the gravitational
potential effect of 45 us /day running fast to give the final result
of 38 us/day running fast. That means that SR is also used to
determine the rate of the GPS.

If so how does that refute SR?  Seeing what we measure happening
corresponds
with what you call the SR effect and the gravitational effects, that
means
it CONFIRMS SR.

Hey idiot if the GPS predicts that the SR effect on the ground clock

Effect on the ground clock according to which observer?  A GPS satellite has
no effect on the ground clock itself .. but the relative motion of an
observer can have an effect on the measurement of that ticking rate by that
observer.

is 7 us/day running fast

No .. it doesn't.  If you ignore gravity and only look at SR, then at an
instant the GPS clock is measured as ticking slower by the ground observer
and the ground clock is measured as ticking slower by the GPS satellite
observer.  However, as the GPS satellite is not moving inertially, there are
other SR effects at play.  The net results is that after one complete orbit,
all observers will agree that the reading on the GPS clock is earlier than
that on the ground clock.
You are such a moron.

Your 'explanation' of SR effects on GPS satellites is inadequate IMO.
Relative to the center of the earth the satellite clock is in a faster
frame and operates at a slower rate than the "common" time we use
around the surface of the earth (even though our velocity on the earth
WRT the Center of the earth varies from zero at the poles to a
maximum at the equator. The satellite is moving inertially. It is not
a straight line, but that is irrelevant.

Mathal

[Mathal]

The GPS uses the SR equations to calculate the SR velocity effect of 7
us/day running slow....this value is subtracted from the gravitational
potential effect of 45 us /day running fast to give the final result
of 38 us/day running fast. That means that SR is also used to
determine the rate of the GPS.

If so how does that refute SR?  Seeing what we measure happening
corresponds
with what you call the SR effect and the gravitational effects, that
means
it CONFIRMS SR.

Hey idiot if the GPS predicts that the SR effect on the ground clock

Effect on the ground clock according to which observer?  A GPS satellite has
no effect on the ground clock itself .. but the relative motion of an
observer can have an effect on the measurement of that ticking rate by that
observer.

is 7 us/day running fast

No .. it doesn't.  If you ignore gravity and only look at SR, then at an
instant the GPS clock is measured as ticking slower by the ground observer
and the ground clock is measured as ticking slower by the GPS satellite
observer.  However, as the GPS satellite is not moving inertially, there are
other SR effects at play.  The net results is that after one complete orbit,
all observers will agree that the reading on the GPS clock is earlier than
that on the ground clock.
You are such a moron.

The gravity of the earth alters the shape of space around it. The GPS
satellite (as long as the orbit is circular, and since it remains
fixed relative to the ground the orbit is circular) is moving with
inertial motion with a fixed velocity WRT the center of the earth (in
the geometry of this region of the universe). The time on the
satellite is operating slower than the time here on the surface of the
earth. The earth calculation is made WRT the point directly below the
satellite. The velocity of this point is compared to the velocity of
the other inertial frame to determine the relative rate of each clock
WRT the center of the earth.

Mathal

[kenseto]

So you agree that the GPS *DOES* show mutual SR time dilation?

No idiot....the GPS refute the SR claim of mutual time dilation.

No .. it doesn't refute SR .. because the SR effect predicted is what is
found to occur.  

Hey idiot...it refute the SR claim of mutual time dilation.

It doesn't refute SR mutual time dilation .. because that
only applies to inertially moving object/frames.

Yes it does refute SR mutual time dialtion. Besides you can't use the
assertion that mtual time dilation only aply to inertially moving
objects. Why? Because no object on earth (including the SR objserver)
is moving inertially.

 And experiment/observation
that doesn't test mutual time dilation cannot possibly refute it

No experiment/observation confirms mutual time dilation....all clock
moving relative to each other are accumulationg clock seconds at
differetn rates....experiments confirm that the traveling clock
accumulates less elapsed seconds.

1. From the ground clcok point of view the SR effect on the GPS is 7
us/day running slow.
2. From the GPS point of view the SR effect on the ground clock is 7
us/day running fast.

That's what SR predicts.

But that's not what SR mutual time dilation predicts.

3. This refute the SR claim of mutual time dilation.

No .. it doesn't refute SR .. because the SR effect predicted is what is
found to occur.  

Only when they ignore the bogus concept of mutual time dilation by
accepting that from the GPS point of view the SR effect on the ground
clock is 7 us/day running fast.
BTW IRT have no such problem. An IRT observer on the ground will
predict that the SR effect on the GPS run slow by a factor of 1/gamma
(7 us/day running slow) or run fast by a factor of gamma (7 us/day
running fast).
An IRT observer on the GPS will predict that the Sr effect on the
ground clock run slow by a factor of 1/gamma (7 us/day running slow)
or runs fast by a factor of gamma (7 us/day running fast).

Ken Seto

It doesn't refute SR mutual time dilation .. because that
only applies to inertially moving object/frames.  And experiment/observation
that doesn't test mutual time dilation cannot possibly refute it
Your claim is like saying that if you drop a feather and a cannonball from a
tall building, and the cannonball hits the ground first, that that refutes
that the acceleration of a falling object is the same regardless of object
mass.  Of course such a claim (like you make about SR) is just nonsense,
because the claim does not apply when there are other forces (air
resistance).  Mutual time dilation does not apply when the objects are not
both moving inertially.

[kenseto]

There is no object in the universe that is in a state of inertial
motion.

That is probably correct .. but when one applies the laws of physics, they
never apply perfectly on their own .. there are always other factors
involved.  That doesn't invalidate the laws.
There are object that move close enough to inertially and where SR effects
occur.  That's all that matters.
Of course, if one of the factors you want to deal with that are preventing
SF from applying is gravity, then you can use the more complete theory of GR
instead.

That means that you have to come up with a different
explanation why the SR effect on the GPS does not obey the SR concept
of mutual time dialtion.

So first you say  there is no inertially moving object .. and then wonder
why SR effects don't apply
The reason why it does not 'obey' mutual time dilation is because it does do
not (alone) apply .. it only applies for inertially moving objects.  When
close to being inertial the time dilation will be close to mutual.  

ROTFLOL.....so at what degree of non-inertialness of the two clocks
such that mutual time dilation becomes invalid? Also why is the GPS
not only not obey mutual time dilation but it is the oppostie of
mutual time dilation as follows:
1. From the ground clock point of view the SE effect on the GPS is 7
us/day running slow.
2. From the GPS point of view the SR effect on the ground clock is 7
us/day running fast.

Ken Seto

When
most definitely not mutual (fora satellite making an orbit) then they do NOT
apply.  This is so damned obvious you must either be a cretin or
deliberately lying

The satellites
orbiting the earth are not moving inertially (in the SR sense), and so
there is
no expectation of "mutual time dilation".

Sigh...the ground observer is also not moving inertially....does this
mean that mutual time dialtion is not valid on earth?

It depends on what you are comparing it with.  If you are comparing it with
te sun over the duration of a year, then no, it does not apply.  If you are
comparing objects over a short period of time in a lab at earth, then they
can both be close enough to inertial for the mutual time dilation to occur.
You need to make similar approximation in almost all physics, as we never
have perfect conditions.  You singling out SR for having to be perfectly
inertial to apply at all is ridiculous, as is thinking that SR predicts
mutual time dilation in all cases .. it doesn't .. perfectly mutual time
dilation is a special case prediction.