Discussion:
Fox News 2012: HD Radio one of "The Biggest CES Flops of All Time" LMFAO!!!!!!!!!
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J G Miller
2012-01-10 17:29:10 UTC
Permalink
I still can't listen to 1120 (KMOX), 840 (WHAS), et.al. because the
HASH is so intrusive.
Where are you trying to listen to them? Someone living in Australia
can't hear them either.
Hardly surprising now that CBS affiliates do not allow listeners outside
the USofA to hear their radio streams.
Steve Stone
2012-01-10 19:20:55 UTC
Permalink
I still can't listen to 1120 (KMOX), 840 (WHAS), et.al. because the
HASH is so intrusive.
What type of radio and antenna are you using?
Try anything directional that can null out the offending stations ???
D. Peter Maus
2012-01-23 20:15:48 UTC
Permalink
What's also not being addressed, is that stations are also processing
the dynamics on the HD streams.
It's not being addressed because it's not true.
Even yet another case where you're denying a simple truth. Stations ARE
processing their HD streams. Sometimes as heavily as their baseband
streams.
And many are not processing them at all.
Not nearly as many as your statement would imply.
But the truth is, that they are not processing it just like they do on the
broadcast band.
Not with the same hardware. But in much the same way.

Software based processing is still processing.
There is seperate processing. SOme stations don't use virtually any
processing at all on their HD streams.
Most, however, do.
I would say that MOST do not. (As someone currently working in the
industry.)
And you would be wrong. (As someone currently working in the
industry.)
So, manglement calls for more processing on the HD Streams.
Yes, it does happen. It happens quite a lot, actually.
This is a vast generalization. No, it doesn't happen "quite a lot".
Every station I (as someone currently working in the industry)
work with, running HD, processes their HD audio. Quite heavily, and
often to the same level as the baseband audio. this, so that there
isn't such a difference in the audio output when the receiver drops
the IBOC stream in favor of the analog audio. Which happens quite a
bit.
D. Peter Maus
2012-01-23 20:16:32 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 14 Jan 2012 01:55:32 -0500, "FarsWatch4"
9 out of 10 doctors also recommended cigarette smoking to
aid
and
improve digestion.
Where is this study?
This was highly touted in advertising during the 1940s.
It was an advertising ploy. Not a study, per se.
I hope we can tell the difference.
Insult aside, it WAS indeed based on surveys.
A survey designed by an advertising company....again, I hope you can
tell
the difference.
Insult aside, it was a survey designed by the Tobacco Industry.
Yes it was.
It was a survey designed by the business its conclusion supported.
Yes it was.
The results were used to promote sales the industry's products.
Yes it was.
Not unlike iBiquity designing and sponsoring surveys the results
of
which supports sales of its products.
The surveys I have seen were not designed nor sponsored by
iBiquity...but
were seperate research projects done by stations themselves by hiring
outside research companies with no stake in the outcome.
As someone who participated in the execution of several such surveys,
that is simply not true.
You mean you couldn't tell when you were being snookered into an
advertising
campain?
Ah, so you admit that the HD surveys are just an advertising
scheme....thank you for finally admitting the truth.
Nope. I'm saying I can tell the difference between an advertising campagn
and scientific research..
As someone who works on both,...I'd say, "yes."
Richard Evans
2012-01-23 21:12:19 UTC
Permalink
On 23/01/2012 19:45, FarsWatch4 wrote:

<quoted lines snipped to satisfy my news server>
"DAB radio: now you hear it, now you don't"
http://grantgoddardradioblog.blogspotdd.com/2009/01/dab-radio-now-you-hear-it-in-store-now.html
You are quoting Grant Goddard....who is speaking of the British broadcasting
model.....He knows nothing about the US industry.
Who's quoting Grant Goddard?
HDRadioFarce
2012-01-23 22:43:30 UTC
Permalink
If you were involved with EIGHT...maybe more?  Then there was something
wrong with the mthodology of this survey
   Not at all. 6 were in other markets. 2 were followup studies.
Then the methodology is flawed....and as a reesult, I would be suspect of
any conclusions.
  The methodology is flawed? Because the survey was conducted in multiple
markets? Hardly. That's like saying Arbitron's PPM is flawed because it's
used in more than Chicago. Nonsense.
No, the fact that you were invited to participate in 6 (or more) surveys.
That's like saying you are registered to vote in additional palces other
than CHicago.
  You're suspect of any conclusions because they don't agree with your pre
packaged claims.
No, I am suspect of any concluysions when I see flawed methodology.
   You're not familiar with the way this kind of survey is done. Rarely
just one. Never in a single location. And about 1/3 of the time with a
current followup to note trends in response, or changes in perceptuals.
You're correct.  In all my years in broadcasting, I have never heard of
such
a silly way to do a "survey".
  Which, then, says a lot about your experience.
No, it says a lot about the "surveys" that you tout.
  You should do some, sometime. It's pretty fascinating stuff. At CBS, we
did perceptuals at least once a year. Sometimes twice. Just to keep track
of trends, and to see how tastes were evolving.
I am involved with every perceptual survey done by every station in our
chain.
  And music surveys are done with greater frequency. In different
locations. I worked at one station that did callout music research every
night.
Did they call the same person 6 (or more times)?
  My company prepares music clips for callout surveys almost constantly
for stations in markets across the country.
Wow...making music clips?  That makes you an expert?
  When taken in context with the wider picture, the local snapshot reveals
even more about local tastes, public expectations, and public perceptions
based on cultural norms all of which are locally shaped.
Not when the methodology is flawed.
  In every market where 'HD radio listening test' surveys were conducted
in which I was involved
You mean the 6 (or more) that you were invited to participate in?
  And there is a reason why criticism of such an obviously flawed system
produces this blizzard of fanboi responses quoting iBiquity pamphlets,
memoes and newsletters.
There is a reason for an army of HD Haterz.  Most are old timers who have
latched onto the past.
I recall people who didn't want us to use Stereo....because "stereo degrades
the signal".
They are all gone now.  ;-)
  The truth requires non of these things.
The truth requires that people don't get shouted down by the HD Radio
Haters" and their posse of hobbysists and DX-ers.
  IBiquity's tactics amount to a kind of strongarming for which Sarnoff
has been excoriated in this group for his treatment of inventions of other
men, like Armstrong and Farnsworth.
No storngarming involved.  DOn't like it?  Don't use it.  Like it?  GO
ahead.  SImple as that.
  In time, there will be an accounting.
Just ,like those guys who railed against FM and Stereo.
  But, as you, yourself have admitted, there is a waning of public
interest in all things Radio....not just shortwave, that has not rallied
even with DRM, but with AM and FM broadcasting...and the public has an
eery ability to find, or create alternatives to things that they don't
like, or things that they once loved, that have been screwed with until
they no longer serve the needs of the pubic, or things that they've lost
interest in. And Radio will be no different. Radio will find that it's
relevance is reduced, as lighter, more responsive, and more personally
customized sources for entertainment and information become available.
I agree.
  And, in time, Radio will find that it's no longer the dominant medium.
And that no one but Radio cares about that fact.
Agreed.
  Even today station content is available from multiple sources, all
producing less than survivable revenue. Even as I write this, I'm
listening to a station in Louisiana, while my wife, at her office listens
to a station in Indianapolis. Neither of us are using radios. And we both
can take these stations with us on our cell phones. With unlimited plans,
or even the new larger data plans by AT&T and Verizon, there's no reason
to fear streaming your favorite stations, now.
Agreed, this is the "new now"...with multiple platforms competing.
  Well, they'd better find ways to either monetize their streams, OR find
a way to provide compelling listening content to draw listeners to their
terrestrial transmitters.
Agreed.
  And in none of these scenarios does HD radio play a part.
HD is not a miracle.  It simply adds some functuionality to the radio.
It's not enough to turn back the disinterest in the AM band...
By the length of your respsone, I'de say you and iBiquity are in panic-
mode!
LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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